Keep this question in mind: Is this a question of morality? Practicality? Traditionality? Ok I made up the last word. But it's important to know with what frame of mind you are considering a subject - if anyone has any comments please do not say "this is bad" or "this is good" but tell me why - is it morally bad? Why? Is it practical? Is it tradition? Who is this bad for? Is it just a different lifestyle?
All around me I see women (and girls) of various ages between 16 and 25 dating men between 30-50. I see this just as often or more than I see women and men of the same age group (on the outside there is no noticeable difference in age). I have a friend who does this and gives me this reason (she is very straight forward about it).
She does not want a career, she wants to be able to do whatever she wants whenever she wants. She wants a man with a career. Older men are stable and have careers. Older men have money. When considering a mate (not her exact words but pretty much) - the guy who showers her the most and gives her the most attention is more likely to be able to give her the life she wants. She never once mentioned maturity.
She has a friend who is 25/26 and is dating a man who is in his 40s. She is not in love with him and actually she is in love with another guy. I don't know who my friend is dating because she doesn't talk about it - she is smart, she keeps all of the men separate.
I do not think that dating multiple people is necessarily a bad thing - if you are honest about it, want to consider multiple options, and are not ready to make a commitment I don't see a problem with this. Others out there might, but that's a discussion for another day.
Is there a problem with this? What do other people think? I really am not sure what to think. I don't think I can have a meaningful relationship with a woman who thinks like this, but I'm not sure, I've never tried. Perhaps they are just practical - there are plenty of good men out there who also happen to have a stable career and enough money. In that case they are simply limiting who they date, like if someone likes to date sporty guys, fashionable guys, or bad guys - they like to date stable men.
I'm a westerner with a good job and that attracts these kind of women so I have to deal with this sometimes.
One of my other friends ( a western guy) thinks it's a simple matter of human nature. Women are attracted to the alpha-male, the guy with the highest standing and thus the guy with money and security will attract women who need money and security the most. These girls are beautiful and thus have a choice - they can either get a career and marry an average man and work together to build a life, or they can live free and marry a man who already has a stable career. These men want beautiful women (who doesn't), and so an exchange is made. These women get the lifestyle they want and the men get a beautiful wife.
Is it possible to make this exchange and then still have a meaningful relationship? Are these women selling their souls, or is it just a practicality that doesn't matter any more than men that like big breasted women?
Any thoughts would be welcome! I'm not considering getting into such a relationship, but it might come up in the future - who knows. Just something hard to think about and yet it is common over here.
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It's an interesting question, the idea of whether that would be a meaningful relationship or not. Unfortunately, I don't have much experience in this area at all, so this is mostly speculation, but here's my two cents. Personaly, I think that having relationships like that is just a phase, something that you do because it feels good at the time. And more and more, the better it feels, the more you try it. But after a certain point, one would hope that you realize that it isn't really what you want and tha tyou would have the courage to realize that instead of just succumbing to your basic instincts. I think there can be a meaningful relationship made out of having multiple partners, or having a partner without really loving them but loving an aspect about them, but I think true love comes from not just one or two aspects, but the full package. If you don't love someone for who they truly are, everything about them, then your just fooling yourself in the end. And if money is all that is important to you, then I guess it can be meaningful. But I think most people value more than just money or looks or anything individual, so I think that in the end,it's just a losing proposition to think that there's any long term potential for a meaningful relationship. But who knows, everyone is different right? But ultimately I just think it's a phase that they'll either grow out from or become addicted to it forever, so hopefully they'll do the former, because there's so much more to life than any one thing after all.
"Gold diggers" or say..."Man eater" Some-(in my opinion) women walk all over men if they can. If a women think she expect the guy to have the career (and not her.) basically she'll be the one that will be step all over... I'm sorry but she is just a shallow person with no life at at all . if she is going around with guys and picking every little characteristic out of each men that she like. it's so sad... it's like shopping....she has no concept of someone else's feelings, her only interest is in getting what she wants.--some 40 yr old guy some girl fooled.....eh?... don't be fooled by the "nicest" girl. Using beauty to overpower men with money, power or fame.. is useless it'll bring you down... seriously....I think as a "FEMINIST" a women should be on her own and maybe leading role and basically work her way up to her career. but don't use men for a higher status or to your high maintenance values... from my experience i admit being poor but i value life moral as to me "work is a effort to achieve what your ultimate career goals are..." I admit that i hate people bossing me around, telling me what to do, or picky eaters, stubbornness, and etc...thats why i would like to work my way up and be the my own boss that I can be....i don't rely on men to only make that kind of money with the only income i can rely on... someday someone would understand that in a relationship it's both working and making an income that they can make and afford a place, car, or a family. But it's easily said and hard to be done...
This article gave me a really complicated feeling. I don't want to say what you talked about is the "dark side" of life, because one: it's common, two: as you said, both parties get what they want from each other. So I say it's "the other side" of life, but it DOES make me very uncomfortable. Personally, I hate the whole idea of "trade", because this "truth" is killing my dream of true love, and obviously it is giving a very bad influence on people who're still building up their inner system of how to look at this world. For me, I won't consider accepting anything only because many people are doing it. Stick to what my heart tells me what is wrong and what is right is more attractive to me and hopefully easier for me to do. Besides, because you are a westerner, and you found things like this are more common in China (maybe in other countries too), and you are really thinking about it (even thinking about accepting it someday in the future), THAT makes me feel really really sorry as a Chinese AND as your friend. You know you don't have to do everything that Romans do when you are in Rome, right?
All very good comments, thanks for posting.
@BK: I don't quite see how it would be a phase, could you expand on that? To me it seems like the trading is more of a practical thing, not one that gives you a better feeling, like say promiscuity.
Truthfully I don't think anyone can make a meaningful relationship dating multiple people - I think the reasoning is to see more people so you can find someone that fits you better rather than diving into one person without properly scoping the field.
Actually as I mentioned in my blog that most people here don't value other things over money / looks / anything individual, and it is very common to see such exchanges taking place in this society.
Perhaps as you say these people will grow out of this lifestyle when they are really old and money no longer becomes important?
@Cindy: It is very interesting that you mention "gold digger." Actually people here call these girls gold diggers as well, but gold digging is very common here and it doesn't quite get thrown around as much. The kind of girl I'm talking about here is not considered a gold digger at all actually, because she doesn't want the richest man but rather a man who has enough money and career stability so that she doesn't have to work.
I agree with the shopping comment: People are not to be "shopped" for, and there is no way to find that perfect "outfit" in love. There is only finding someone that you love and can accept their faults and go through life together with all of the hardships - even money hardships :) I think many chinese feel this way too, so don't get me wrong there.
So question to you: Is it wrong for women to NOT want a career? Have we forced women in society to choose career now? What if a woman doesn't want a career?
@Helen: It is very valient of you to not accept something just because everyone does it, and you're right that I don't have to accept this. But I don't have to not accept it either - just because everyone hates it. I'm just trying to understand this kind of life.
Thanks for everyone's comments, it's very interesting to see where everyone stands on this concept. There is no one out there that approves of this? No one that can defend this? I was really hoping to see someone defending it, that way we can get some real discussion going. Anyone want to play devil's advocate?
Well, let me be the devil then. I learned that girls look for two things in relationships, they are lovers and providers. Lovers are quite self-explanatory. Providers means those men who are rich enough, stable enough, secure enough, easy enough, so that they can be a great support to the girls' next generation, or even better, can still be a great provider when the girl find her lover. The behavior you mentioned in this post are just girls looking for these providers. Just natural. As for you, if you don't feel like being a provider one day, just try to play lovers, because when girls put you in the lover category, they won't put you in the provider category again. Haha, just some weird stuff I learned from books.
Regards,
Shen Tong
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